Showing posts sorted by relevance for query Interobjectivity. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query Interobjectivity. Sort by date Show all posts

Saturday, November 9, 2024

John Shotter (1937-2016) (自體的心理學)(negativity vs vitality)

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/29/john-shotter-obituary

https://www.taosinstitute.net/about-us/people/in-memoriam/john-shotter

https://kellychang2713.blogspot.com/search?q=Interobjectivity&max-results=20&by-date=false

起因是 interobjectivity / intraobjectivity

Chapter 3. From inter-subjectivity, via inter-objectivity, to intra-objectivity: from a determinate world of separate things to an indeterminate world of inseparable flowing processes (JOHN SHOTTER, 2013) In Understanding the Self and Others Explorations in intersubjectivity and interobjectivity, ed. by Gordon Sammut, Paul Daanen and Fathali M. Moghaddam, Routledge, 2013


What did John Shotter mean by from intersubjectivity to interobjectivity to intraobjectivity? (ChatGPT, 2024-11-9)


John Shotter, a prominent social psychologist, explored the progression from intersubjectivity to interobjectivity, and ultimately to intraobjectivity, to deepen our understanding of human interactions and the construction of reality.


Intersubjectivity refers to the shared understanding that emerges between individuals during interactions. It emphasizes how personal experiences and perspectives are aligned through communication, leading to mutual comprehension. Traditional psychology often focuses on this aspect, examining how individuals negotiate meanings to achieve common ground.


Interobjectivity, a concept introduced by Bruno Latour and further developed by Shotter, shifts the focus to the role of objects and artifacts in mediating social interactions. It suggests that shared understandings are not solely the product of direct interpersonal communication but are also shaped by the material and cultural artifacts present in our environment. These objects carry embedded meanings and affordances that influence and structure our interactions, facilitating a form of shared reality that transcends individual subjectivities. 


Intraobjectivity delves deeper into the internalization of these shared meanings and practices. It examines how the external world, including social norms and material artifacts, becomes internalized within individuals, shaping their perceptions, thoughts, and behaviors. This concept highlights the process by which external, socially constructed realities are absorbed into one’s internal cognitive and emotional frameworks, influencing how individuals experience and engage with the world.


By tracing this trajectory from intersubjectivity to interobjectivity and intraobjectivity, Shotter aimed to illustrate the complex interplay between individual cognition, social interactions, and the material world. He argued that understanding human behavior and social reality requires acknowledging not only the direct interpersonal exchanges but also the broader socio-material contexts that shape and are shaped by these interactions. 


Was John Shotter influenced by Karen Barad in formulating his ideas of interobjectivity and intraobjectivity? (ChatGPT, 2024-11-9)


John Shotter’s concepts of interobjectivity and intraobjectivity were developed independently of Karen Barad’s work. Shotter’s exploration of these ideas is rooted in his engagement with social constructionism and dialogical practices, focusing on how shared understandings and meanings emerge through interactions among individuals and objects. While both Shotter and Barad delve into the relational aspects of reality, their theoretical frameworks and influences differ. Barad’s agential realism, for instance, is heavily informed by quantum physics and the philosophy of science, emphasizing the entanglement of matter and meaning. In contrast, Shotter’s work is more aligned with social psychology and the philosophy of language, particularly drawing from thinkers like Wittgenstein and Bakhtin. Therefore, while there are thematic overlaps in their attention to relationality, Shotter’s development of interobjectivity and intraobjectivity was not directly influenced by Barad’s theories.


What does quantum entanglement mean? (ChatGPT, 2024-11-9)


Quantum entanglement is a phenomenon in quantum physics where two or more particles become linked, such that the state of one particle instantly influences the state of the other, regardless of the distance separating them. This connection is so strong that even if the particles are separated by vast distances, changing one particle’s properties (like its spin) will result in an immediate, corresponding change in the other particle’s properties.


This phenomenon challenges our classical understanding of how objects interact over distances and has been experimentally confirmed, but it also raises profound questions about the nature of reality and locality. Quantum entanglement is a foundational concept in quantum mechanics, playing a critical role in emerging technologies like quantum computing and quantum cryptography.


The idea was famously referred to as “spooky action at a distance” by Einstein, who found it troubling because it seemed to defy the limits of information transfer as described by the speed of light.

Saturday, November 26, 2022

Interobjectivity (2022-11-30) (2023)

https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-1-4614-5583-7_158

http://www.bruno-latour.fr/sites/default/files/63-INTEROBJECTS-GB.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254080953_Interobjectivity_Representations_and_artefacts_in_Cultural_Psychology

https://www.amazon.com/-/zh_TW/Gordon-Sammut-ebook/dp/B00EVWHWPO/ref=sr_1_10?crid=3GLVPLMXQJCO&keywords=Gordon+sammut&qid=1669439235&s=books&sprefix=gordon+sammut%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C319&sr=1-10

當互為主體性,欲求客觀的存在;當二,欲求三;

這時,我們來到,interobjectivity,

你可以把 interobjectivity 理解為,物的反撲,

Sounds like structuralism coming back.

意思是說,這個世界,本為一個物體的,客觀的存在,人的自大,添加進去,他的主觀,用他的主觀,凌駕那個客觀,企圖駕馭自然,操控自然,

無為,就是,道法自然,

如果,人,無法不為,

則,困難在,人「為」,是否必然造作,是否可能免於造作,

起碼,不是,太糟,的造作,

如果,人,有所為,有所不為,

則,困難在,為,與不為,的分際,怎麼判準,

依此,「The Moral Third」 (Benjamin, 2017) is an example of interobjectivity.

Thursday, November 21, 2024

What’s the difference between intersubjectivity, interobjectivity, and intraobjectivity? (ChatGPT, 2024-11-21)

 Here’s a breakdown of the concepts intersubjectivity, interobjectivity, and intraobjectivity, highlighting their distinctions:


1. Intersubjectivity


Definition: The shared understanding, meaning, or experience that emerges between subjects (usually humans).

Key Characteristics:

Focuses on the relational dynamics between individuals.

Often discussed in phenomenology, existentialism, and psychology (e.g., Edmund Husserl, Martin Buber, and Jürgen Habermas).

Central to social interaction, communication, and empathy.

Examples:

A group of people agreeing on a cultural norm or moral principle.

A therapeutic relationship where mutual understanding shapes healing.

Shared recognition of an artwork’s emotional impact.


2. Interobjectivity


Definition: The shared network of meanings or relationships between objects, systems, or structures, often independent of individual subjectivity.

Key Characteristics:

Rooted in sociology, actor-network theory (e.g., Bruno Latour), and systems theory.

Emphasizes how non-human entities (e.g., technologies, symbols, or institutions) influence collective behavior.

Highlights the role of objects and materiality in mediating relationships.

Examples:

Traffic laws and road signs guiding behavior without direct human interaction.

The interplay between economic systems and global markets.

A library’s organization system creating a shared understanding of knowledge access.


3. Intraobjectivity


Definition: The self-referential or internal relational dynamics within a single entity (object or subject).

Key Characteristics:

Focuses on the internal coherence, tensions, or relations of a system or object.

Often discussed in the context of systems theory, cybernetics, or metaphysics.

Highlights how an entity organizes and relates to its components or parts.

Examples:

The internal logic of a computer program determining its behavior.

The self-organization of ecosystems balancing various biological processes.

A person’s internal dialogue shaping their sense of self.


Comparative Summary:


Aspect Intersubjectivity Interobjectivity Intraobjectivity

Focus Relations between subjects (humans). Relations between objects or systems. Internal dynamics within one entity.

Field of Study Phenomenology, psychology, sociology. Actor-network theory, sociology. Systems theory, cybernetics, ontology.

Example Context Empathy, dialogue, cultural meaning. Social systems, technologies, symbols. Ecosystem self-regulation, personal self-reflection.


Would you like to explore any of these concepts further in a specific context?


Monday, November 28, 2022

那裡是哪裡 (2023) (2022-11-30)

(一)

前言,

John Shotter (2013) Chapter 3. From inter-subjectivity, via inter-objectivity, to intra-objectivity: From a determinate world of separate things to an indeterminate world of inseparable flowing processes. In Understanding the Self and Others: Explorations in intersubjectivity and interobjectivity, Edited by Gordon Sammut, Paul Daanen and Fathali M. Moghadda, Routledge, 2013 

I’m surprised and glad that he noticed Karen Barad too.

但是,我對於 Shotter (2013) 就能來到「那裡」,還是十分驚訝,

什麼是「那裡」,那裡是哪裡,請看 2022-11-28 條目,

(二)

試著說明,

那裡就是,量子物理的世界,就是 Shotter (2013) 的章名,From inter-subjectivity, via inter-objectivity, to intra-objectivity: From a determinate world of separate things to an indeterminate world of inseparable flowing processes,

(三)

意思是說,

互為主體性理論,其實,仍然預設著主體的存在,雖然它也預設,一來自於二,being 來自於 intersubjectivity,

這不可謂不是,一個突破性的說法,對於慣於主客兩分的,笛卡爾的世界而言,

(四)

但是,你要想想,為什麼後結構主義之後,當代哲學,在講 new materialism,OOO (object oriented ontology),agential realism,

你要回想,懷德海當年講的歷程哲學 (process philosophy),就是受了量子物理的影響,

換句話說,一百年後,我們終於來到,一九二零年代,的世界,

(五)

我想,這是讓人疑惑,很難接受,的說法,

簡單講,這個說法說,主體,以至互為主體,其實皆為乍 (詐) 現,

互為主體性 (intersubjectivity),再往前推,究其竟,就是互為物體性 (interobjectivity),

這是為什麼,Graham Harman 講 OOO 的原因,

意思是說,「生命,無生命,皆為『物』(object)」,

你現在可以理解,照這個說法,再往前推,「人為之物 (man-made objects),當然『也是物』」,所以,我們會來到,biology-machine 結合為一體的,後人類的世界,

(六)

上述說法,為什麼讓人疑惑,很難接受,

因為,我們習於「人是萬物之靈」的說法已久,

(Human-centered) Humanism,就是 Anthropocene 的肇因,

Anthropocene,眼看著,就要毀滅一切生命,

意思是說,這些哲學家,講的「物的哲學」,尚容許生命存在,anthropocene 的結局,是一個沒有生命的物的世界,生命是不被容許存在的,

(七)

回到一開始,Shotter (2013),我驚訝的是,他超過了 interobjectivity,甚至已經來到了「intra-objectivity」,

什麼是,intra-objectivity,

我想,那裡是 Karen Barad (2007) 的世界,換句話說,就是後結構主義之後的,量子物理的世界,

我想,那裡是要說明,「物,乃至生命,的生成」,

你不要忘記,人類有了量子物理,才造得出原子彈,Barad 想出 Agential Realism,是有倫理的企圖的,

意思是說,那裡,除了說明,「物,乃至生命,的生成」,之外,

是要說明,物,乃至生命,如何免於互毀,如何互相珍惜,如何一起共存,

(八)

量子物理,讓人類一窺,宇宙生成的謎,

這個一窺,理應讓人敬畏,讓人自覺渺小,讓人終於學習平等待物,

但是,人類作為乍 (詐) 現的極其惡劣的例子,已有其極其人為造作的罪惡的旅途,

意思是說,乍 (詐) 現來自,波的功能的崩塌,而波的功能的崩塌,來自「無以名之的什麼」,看著,度量著,宇宙,

通常,我們稱那個「無以名之的什麼」,為神,

你認為,神會不會想,懲罰人類,

(九)

小結,

互為主體性理論強調,一,來自關係,

關係學派則進而強調,一,「只可能」來自關係,

Interobjectivity 說,一,本質上,就是物,

Intra-objectivity 則進而說明,一,作為物,的生成,和變化,

而,那個,生成,和變化,的關鍵,就是 mutual enactment,就是 resumption of the wave function,

意思是說,我想,關係學派還不知道,他們已經來到,量子物理的世界的門口,





Saturday, September 9, 2023

John Shotter (d 2016) (SP 2023) (自體的心理學) (Interobjectivity)

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/29/john-shotter-obituary

https://www.taosinstitute.net/about-us/people/in-memoriam/john-shotter

https://ijcp.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/biling-english-7.pdf

我最驚訝的是,他 2012 年的那個 Chapter,

Understanding the Self and Others: Explorations in Intersubjectivity and Interobjectivity, , Routledge, 2012

Chapter 3. From inter-subjectivity, via inter-objectivity, to intra-objectivity: from a determinate world of separate things to an indeterminate world of inseparable flowing processes (JOHN SHOTTER)

Shotter 引述 Karen Barad,你要理解,Agential Realism 的 Agential ,指的是「物」,不是人,

See also 

Interobjectivity: Representations and artefacts in cultural psychology (2010)





Friday, December 2, 2022

互為主體性的困難,及其前後順序的說明 (2022-12-7)

你要理解,血汗工廠,勞動者和他面前的,生產線上的,快速移動的螺絲,不可能產生,互為主體的關係,

比如說,一個正常的工人,一天要打五千個螺絲,

所以,你以為,這個正常的工人,每天與他的螺絲,有五千個互為主體的經驗,

但,正確的說法,應該是,五千個,「互相物化的經驗」 (inter-reification),

意思是說,我們的一般的正常的生活,只能有「互相物化的關係」,罕見互為主體的關係,

PS. (2022-12-4)

互為主體的基本困難,在於雙方都被各自的話語系統制約,這是為什麼我們必須有兩個話語系統的原因,你要理解,只有系統方足以抗衡系統,自由就發生在這個矛盾中間,

PS.

Interobjectivity 不等於 inter- reification,

Interobjectivity 是 intersubjectivity,之後,人放下他以己為本位的妄自尊大的時候,才能發生的,

所以事情的順序是,(1) inter-reification ---> (2) intersubjectivity ---> (3) interobjectivity ---> (4) intra-objectivity,

(1) 是人生常態,I - it 相待,以致 I 只可能墮為 it ,成為 it - it 相待,(2) 是人間,耐不住寂寞 (或不認為寂寞是必須) 的好心人,散發人性光輝,不信人之作為主體,可以以個體孤懸而存在,相信人之作為主體的存在,必基於脈絡,由關係繫之而存在,遂願以誠意接人,互相對待,不願淪為彼此物化的關係,(3) 是開回到自然之智慧之人,的存有在世間之道,以物自居,不欲自詡萬物之靈,只願生為萬物之一,所以看見一隻烏蠅,一隻蜜蜂,一個小便斗,就像見到隔世的弟兄,(4) 是 (3) 道行修成,不可思議,遂參與了物,乃至,宇宙的,生成和變化,如莊子逍遙遊,達摩東行一世,留一履西歸,或船子和尚,擺渡一世,不知所蹤,




Sunday, September 10, 2023

Bruno Latour (1947-2022) (Interobjectivity)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Latour

Latour, B. (1996). On interobjectivity. Mind, Culture and Activity, 3(4), 228–245.

Fathali M. Moghaddam (Interobjectivity)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathali_M._Moghaddam

Moghaddam, F. (2003) Interobjectivity and culture. Culture and Psychology, 9(3), 221–232.

Wednesday, October 16, 2024

車行形上學

昨與 F 君晤,我說關鍵是脫落,你要理解,車行就是脫落,一脱再脱,一落再落,遂無所脱,遂無所落,意思是說,遂光著屁股,蹲坐河邊,頭頂鳥雀,雙手護鴨,你要理解,脫落不是國王新衣,光著屁股的國王,以為他穿著衣服,脫落者,知道自己是光著屁股,

你要理解,給我們帶來自由的是他者,給我們帶來鎖鏈的也是他者,意思是說,他者就是薛西弗斯頂住推上山的巨石,

昨 F 君問,何謂三,我說三就是這個世界,意思是說,三就是他者,

高達美講哲學的詮釋學,要我們讀出他者的他者性,intersectionality,則要我們讀出,他者中復有他者,

昨 F 君亦提及,互為客體性 (interobjectivity),正確的說,應是互為物性,我說,王陽明說,草木瓦石,皆有良知,意思是說,物亦有情,見巖中花樹,遂實為,「為巖中花樹所見」,你要理解,這是為巖所見,亦為(巖中)花樹所見,意思是說,互為物性,之物,可以是萬物,亦可以是眾生,至此,半途中,與宇宙相遇,與萬物相遇,與眾生相遇,與事件相遇,遂為事件事件,遂為菊次郎,遂為車行,遂得自由,

昨 F 君亦提及,地理是否決定了精神分析,我說我希望,這個決定,不是完全決定,剛剛我想,恐怕逃不出,被完全決定,昆德拉和蘇小和說的,life elsewhere ,就是逃逸的路線,雷馬克的漂流木 (Flotsam),也是逃逸的路線,當然,雷馬克是悲觀的,

Saturday, November 26, 2022

John Shotter obituary (1937-2016) (2022-11-30)

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/29/john-shotter-obituary

John Shotter (2013) Chapter 3. From inter-subjectivity, via inter-objectivity, to intra-objectivity: From a determinate world of separate things to an indeterminate world of inseparable flowing processes. In Understanding the Self and Others: Explorations in intersubjectivity and interobjectivity, Edited by Gordon Sammut, Paul Daanen and Fathali M. Moghadda, Routledge, 2013 

I’m surprised and glad that he noticed Karen Barad too.

但是,我對於 Shotter (2013) 就能來到「那裡」,還是十分驚訝,

什麼是「那裡」,那裡是哪裡,請看 2022-11-28 條目,